FightCPS Guestbook for October 2008

This is the guestbook for October 2008. You’re welcome to tell us about yourself and why you’re here.

[Update, October 3 - I just had to ban two systemite posters: "Advocate" is someone who claimed to be a CPS caseworker whose postings have become rude and sarcastic; "Erica" is someone who rudely expressed her belief that almost all people involved with CPS are guilty. Please ignore the postings of these two people as they will no longer be allowed to post on this website.]

Note: This thread is closed to new comments. Please refer to the most recent guestbook thread to leave your message.

Filed under: Guestbooks — Linda @ 1:18 pm

371 Comments

At times, social workers come on this site with the intent to justify their own misdeeds. Do not be discouraged by it. Those of us who have been through the ordeal are here for you. There are many like me. I’ve learned much more than I ever wanted to know. I’ve learned, much, too late in certain aspects. But, I will do my best to prevent other families from enduring the atrocities that DHS affects us with. Do not believe DHS, Do not talk to DHS. Research DHS, if you have the opportunity. Save yourself and your family from a nightmare.

Comment by daaronad — October 1, 2008 @ 8:24 pm

You are so right daanronad!!

Even police who have been traumatized by CPS/DHHS have written about how CPS did nothing but use brute force in taking children!

We all need to be strong, bur MORE IMPORTANTLY - LET YOUR STORY BE TOLD BY THE MEDIA!!!

CPS/DHHS HATES NOTHING MORE THAN MEDIA INTERVENTION!!!

The more PUBLICITY THAt CPS/DHHS GETS, THEL MORE THEY WILL LEAVE YOU ALONE!!!!!!

BE AWARE AND BRING THE MEDIA IN!!!!!

I guarantee CPS/DHHS will leave you alone when tv or investigative reporters are involved!!!!
They don’t want their illegalities shown to the whole world!

EXPOSE CPS FOR WHAT THEY ARE! THAT’S THE ONLY WAY TO BEAT THEM!!!!!\

Comment by willfightforjustice — October 1, 2008 @ 8:31 pm

Legislators. This is where concerns need to be voiced. Everyone should have a voice, especially those who have been wronged but keep in mind-not everyone at CPS is bad. A worker that has done wrong and exposed via the media may at most be fired but the policies and laws that are practiced the right way will remain. I think that one of the major issues I am hearing on here is not that a particular worker did wrong but that the policies are not in the best interest of the children- if this is the case, energy should not be wasted banging on the exclamation point button on your computer but rallying to meet with legislators in your state. Change is made everyday in all aspects of life but we must be clear in our objectives and in what must be done to meet those objectives. With that said, who’s going to make moves and who is going to fool themself into thinking that name calling, insults, and instigating strangers via comment boxes is going to make a difference? ~Peace and Blessings~

Comment by Advocate — October 1, 2008 @ 10:13 pm

Advocate,

Actually, it needs to be a multi-faceted approach. Because I have worked against CPS, we have been investigated every time someone can think of a reason to bring up a reason to investigate us, we have been attacked via email and personal attacks for allegedly supporting abuse, we have been stalked, defamed, you name it.

Yet nobody has lived their lives under total scrutiny, and yet we still “come up clean”.

My state has a CPS review board. I have asked questions about how to get on that board; nobody seems to have the answers. It appears that board is not overseen by objective citizens, but rather (SURPRISE!) CPS caseworkers who tend to protect their own.

As for politicians, they don’t listen to issues like that. Period. And running for office requires a fair amount of money.

So we need to work on a grassroots level even as we try to make changes higher up. Make sense?

Comment by Gideon MacLeish — October 2, 2008 @ 5:58 am

I’ve been screaming my story to anybody & everybody. I’ve written to the media, legislators, congress critters, city council, etc. I’m not shutting up until somebody will listen & do something. Put ME on a CPS review board. Heck, I’m MORE than qualified. Here, they just put CPS goons on it cuz of my complaint about our caseworker being friends with the feminazis that have our kids.

Comment by Susan — October 2, 2008 @ 6:18 am

I’ve written every legislator and senator I could find, from my state and others. I’ve written to several media outlets that say they are “for the people”. Every signle one has either ignored my letter entirely or worse, actually notified me that the issue of CPS is not a (to use one senators own words), “pressing matter of the american people”.

In other words, it’s an election year and this is not a “lime-light” issue to base his campaign on.

Folks, I hate to say it, but this year especially, we will be put on the back burner as there are for bigger issues for legislators to concentrate on that do affect every american.

But should we stop screaming? NO!
Eventually our economy will recover, just as history conveys as far back as the Great Depression and earlier.

It is then we will have our day. At some point, Legislators will have less volitle subjects to base thier campaigns on, and our issue will become the most important issue for a canidate to run on.

THAT is when we will start to see some changes.

Comment by Cheryl — October 2, 2008 @ 8:20 am

You know, one way to get their attention is to pit them against each other. Who is in control of your state? In my case, it is the Democrats. Read this and substitute it with Republican and your own state info if you need to then send it to your legislators and Congressman:
If you want to see what Democrats will do, just look at Washington State. Here they rule and have for years, put our state 3 billion in debt, doubled child removal from 2006-2007, have me feeling like I live in a police state because you can’t go anywhere without seeing an officer yet want to hire more, are turning crime into a major business as evidenced by all the new prisons/jails being built and implement pet projects that end up being national programs all over CPS and family court. Every time you hear of a CASA worker going against a family, or no due process in family court, or concurrent planning (a plan to adopt and a plan for reunification going at the same time but don’t be fooled by that either. The REAL plan might be to adopt), think of Washington State and the Democrats.

They have reduced the Omsbudsman program to a statistic gathering organization more so than a CPS watchdog. There is no authority in Washington State against CPS. Legislators have even gone to court with families only to have the courts and CPS disrespect them. The courts are in bed with CPS for federal funding and often side with them regardless of the evidence IF they will even hear the parents side of the story. They have taken away any and all rights for extended family leaving parents extremely vulnerable. Hospitals are now going after the federal funding and are in the child removal business. Heaven help you if your child has an accident and the doctor decides to call CPS with bogus claims. Plan on spending thousands for forensic scientists. If you can’t afford that, bye bye children.

To understand the seriousness of this, read the following article: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2006/aug/27/20060827-103843-8516r/ This is Democratic globalism.

Children are dying all over the state in CPS care 6-1 over parents but you don’t hear about that in the liberal media. The media only discuss parental abuse to keep the Democrats happy with their adoption incentives coming in. They take their statistics off of long term dependency as it pertains to relative placement - but don’t be fooled. Less that 1/4 of REMOVED children get placed in extended family care. They are not counting the unsubstantiated removals who often take months before they are resolved. They are screening most relatives out or dragging their feet on relative placement then telling people “you are no longer bonded therefore we have to adopt out.” They are not following the law as it pertains to relative placement and family preservation.

Bottom line is: VOTE DEMOCRAT AND LOSE YOUR CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN

Comment by Jan Smith — October 2, 2008 @ 9:52 am

I have been following the info on this site (as well as many others) for sometime. Never thought I would have too do something like this, but thanks to my Wife’s ex-husband (Darin Abbott) he keeps things busy with whatever he wants to dream up next. Too bad our justice system protects the real criminals!

Comment by Tom Dillon — October 2, 2008 @ 10:19 am

I agree with many of that postings that encourage media involvement. If no one responds, KEEP TRYING! The more people that speak up, the more these outlets realize there is something wrong! The general public do not know what it is like to be targeted by disgruntled CPS workers. This is one way to get the word out! CPS cannot take the heat. My case was closed two years ago, but I still have to look over my shoulder because of the newspaper and radio interviews I gave PISSED them off! (CPS looked like fools and they were not happy). THe unfortunate thing is that they are still allowed to do what they want because the law still protects them. The next step is to fight them through legislation. Don’t give up! We need to keep on our elected officials who are working for you and me, the American people.

Comment by Valerie — October 2, 2008 @ 10:57 am

Three weeks ago I spoke in front of a County Commission on an issue I felt strongly about. What I said went against the grain of a major tax hike this City department wanted to implement. While there I met a woman who was also speaking against it and we exchanged phone number. She came to my house one time to discuss a game plan for the issue. Shortly after that, I found out from a friend this woman had a number of abuse convictions by CPS and was advised not to let her into my house again. When I told the woman we would not be meeting here again and why, she became very very angry with me.

Two days ago, DCS (Department of Childrenâ€™s Services) came to my house to investigate 3 complaints, all by the same person. I gave the worker the womanâ€™s name, and told him why I believe it was her, since the accusations against me were IDENTICAL to those she was convicted of. From the expression on his face, I knew I hit the nail on the head.

none the less, he had a warrant to interrogate my son and search my house. Being a healthy, happy 4 year old, my son did have a bruise or two from falling off playground equipment at a park a couple days before. My son told him exactly what happened and how he got the bruises. Then the accompanying police officer took my son to his room to play while the worker talked to me. While in there, my son bounced on his bed (something I do not allow) and fell off into his toy box and had gotten a new bruise. The worker immediately wanted to photograph it. The cop gave him a look and stated he witnessed how it happened and would testify truthfully, the worker put down his camera.

At the end of the day, I was lucky, the worker closed the case. BUT he told me if they get one more call like this one, my son would probably be removed from the home. I asked if the call was made by the same person who called before if he would also be taking this action, after knowing the background. He said the call could come from anybody, including this convicted abuser, it did not matter.

Like most people, the mortgage crisis has left us upside down on our house. Would you suggest we move out of this town, and simply allow the bank to take the house back to protect our son, or do you think we are really in danger from this mad woman?

We are willing to do WHATEVER it takes not to have to relive this nightmare. There is no doubt in my mind if that wonderful, honest police officer was not here, he would have taken my son.

Comment by mom of a 4 year old — October 2, 2008 @ 11:08 am

Mom of a 4yr old.

You were lied to from the get go.

There is no such thing as a “warrant” to “interview” or do a home study. Frequently, CPS uses papers from a supervisor that look very real, to represent as a warrant. The letterhead is convienient for scaring moms and dads have to death. Happened to us! Truth be told, it was really a supervisors request of the CW to investigate. A CPS supervisor is NOT a judge!!!

The only warrant they can get is to remove the boy, period. And they can only get that by showing a judge proof that the boy is in immenent danger of death or serious harm if he remains for more than a few hours.

I would never suggest leaving your livlihood to protect your son. Walking away from your home will not deter these people. They will follow you and you will have lost your home for nothing.

Instead…PLEASE KNOW YOUR RIGHTS. Study, study and study. This website is excellent for helping you learn your rights. Read up on the 4th and 14th amendment (civil rights).

Do not let these people in again. Ask to see and read the “warrant” completely BEFORE they comence into your home. Make sure it IS signed by a Judge on court paper. Tell them you wish to protect your civil rights by reading it for content. Have a witness OUTSIDE with you if ever they show up again. If they ask to see the boy, have him appear at the entry door, then go inside immediately afterward.

Be polite but firm that you know your rights as a parent when confronting CPS. As you saw, police are not always willing to risk their badge for a lie.

The police were present when this happened, you said. If that really had been a “warrant”, don;t you think that the police would have removed the boy…and possibly you?

It makes zero common sense. You were lied to by the worker and the cop knew it. At least he did the right thing to help you.

You’ve come to the right place for support and civil rights knowledge

Comment by Cheryl — October 2, 2008 @ 1:07 pm

I wonder if I can file a complaint on the spcial workers in this case for willfully inflicting mental and emotional abuse on them.

Comment by Antonette Wilson — October 2, 2008 @ 1:41 pm

That case worker does not have the authority to take your child “if one more complaint is lodged”. If you ever deal with them again (especially him), have a recorder on hand and record EVERYTHING. You may want to speak with the police officer and see if you can file a complaint against this worker for acting outside the bounds of their authority.

Comment by Gideon Macleish — October 2, 2008 @ 2:05 pm

Mom of 4yr old:

If they come to your house again, you do not have to let them in without a warrant.

In some states the Judge will issue it because he gets paid..

However, make sure if they do come or call you to their office to have a voice recorder or video camera. Preferably video camera..

Don’t be afraid of them because if you are and they know it they will eat you alive..

Also, after each conversation write/type it up in a letter and mail or fax (preferably fax) the contents of the conversation… Also, add a line for them to sign if they agree or disagree.

Please be very careful, they have been there once… they will be back!

Please do your homework and reasearch before they take your child….

Comment by Diando — October 2, 2008 @ 2:09 pm

Also, keep a timeline…… Write up what happened already..

Also the peice of paper that they show you as Cheryl stated does look real.. It has a filed stamp…. You can buy one yourself at Office Depot…

Unless it is signed and seal stamped by a Judge do not let them take your child…

Comment by Diando — October 2, 2008 @ 2:11 pm

Mom of 4 yr. old - If they keep coming to your house, it means they are doing an ‘investigation’ (witch hunt) to look for anything & everything to be used against you. Mine went on for 5 months, then we went to court with a BOGUS report the childless caseworker wrote (all negative things) about my family. The corrupt judge bought it & bye bye kids, including one that was not even BORN. If they do that in your case, I recommend you & your family RUN LIKE HELL to another state. They can’t follow you there (they seriously will NOT have the MONEY) if no abuse occurred! I wish to hell we had left while we had the kids.

Comment by Susan — October 2, 2008 @ 3:02 pm

I am so glad that there are still people on here,fighting those crooked nazis all the sights i have found seemed to date back to 2007
i also was a victim ,they took my new born from the hosp.eight yrs ago.and yes of course,they adopted her out.
do nit piss off a nurse in the hosp.cause guess who shows up?
cps….

Comment by margie meeks — October 2, 2008 @ 3:37 pm

buy a notebook and make sure it is not used by the kids. It it yours alone…to detail everything immediately as it happens, or is said.

Video is great! They hate it, but you certainly will let them know that you are aware of your rights, even you are not. Don’t let them tell you no video is allowed. If they make a big deal of it at their office, then annouce the meeting is over until you meet at a neutral location so that you may use the video recorder.

If at any point you suspect that you rights are in danger, GET AN ATTORNEY. The assigned attorney’s are paid by the same State Atty General that signs the paychecks for GAL’s, CASA and CPS case workers.

Talk about a conflict of interest!

Of course, the attorney they provide will not kill their meal ticket and tell you how to win this. If they lose cases for their families, they stay on the payroll. If they win too many cases, they will need to find a new partnership soon.

Comment by Cheryl — October 2, 2008 @ 4:15 pm

Mom of a 4 year old-
You need to speak to that worker’s supervisor because if that statement was made without you having a verrryyyyy looonnnnggggg history, it was more than inappropriate. (When I say history, I am not referring to cases that were opened and then closed soon after, I am referring to cases in which CPS has identified issues/ concerns). Did you call the supervisor or director?

Comment by Advocate — October 2, 2008 @ 5:55 pm

Margie-
“Pissing” off a nurse will not lead you to getting your child taken away. There is NO way. There has to be more to it.

Comment by Advocate — October 2, 2008 @ 5:57 pm

Do any of you ever think about the children’s best interests and well being?? All I hear about on this site is about the poor parents. Do any of you have any training on the affects parental substance abuse, physical, sexual, emotional abuse and neglect on children? CPS should be rewarded for taking children from UNSAFE parents. Stop blamng everyone else and look at yourselves! Your children will be better off without you in most cases!

Comment by Erica — October 2, 2008 @ 6:10 pm

Response to these mother’s complaining about CPS taking their kids. WAKE UP, CPS did not remove your kids for no reason. Let me guess you were a drug addict and used while pregnant. CPS HAS TO HAVE VERY THOROUGH documentation to removed children let alone to sever your rights. There are no cases where children are severed that a LEGAL REQUIREMENT was not met!! Again, look at yourselves. Some people are not meant to be parents. Be glad your child is with a loving family that wants children not a drug addicted or abusive or neglectful mother who took them for granted and mistreated them!!

Comment by Erica — October 2, 2008 @ 6:14 pm

Allow me to be human for a moment if you will…..I have read a lot of stories on here and corresponded with some who I really feel for as I know that they have made changes and fought the right way BUT some of you on here are so immature and ignorant that it makes me upset for those who really need help. Being ignorant and name calling is not helping you- really, it is making you look bad- bad enough to the point where I start to wonder if there are some serious mental health issues going on. Say what you will but it is what it is. I think that this site is a good thing for those who seek direction, understanding, and hope but some of the people on here should not be offering advice to anyone as you are either spouting the words of an 8 year old or you are suggesting things that are in no way, shape, or form going to work. I’m not telling you what I heard, I’m telling you what I know. If half of you jump down my throat just because I work for CPS, you have issues. If you didnt say it to your worker then, dont say it to me- I didnt make the case decision. I guess its a lot easier for idiots to put thoughts together when they can take breaks after each sentence. Yeah yeah yeah, the heart is pumping, your fingers are tingling from your desire to respond with what you think is a zinger, save it! CPS= baby snatchers, the devil, crazy, power hungry, etc…..oh and Nazis. I heard the first 1000 insults and I grow weary. Dont turn this site into a elementary school playground- there are people on here looking for help, not cowards in denial. Kandice told us about how she just lost her appeal and then some moron replies- not to her but to me, with some juvenile BS and then at the very end they throw in: Oh yeah, I’m sorry too Kandice. This says it all. I think that some of you are bigger threats to victimized parents than CPS. Wow!

Comment by Advocate — October 2, 2008 @ 6:15 pm

…and here it comes, wait for it wait for it, GO!

Comment by Advocate — October 2, 2008 @ 6:17 pm

OH there is more to it.i was a single mother for one,had a clean backround.i pissed off the nurse she called cps.i dont even know where to begin,yes yhey did keep my baby,
and most people assume it was drugs.
it was not.they said i was mentally unfit at first ,then they said i had no means for support when i had a full time job and so on.i never even got to take my baby home.

Comment by margie meeks — October 2, 2008 @ 6:20 pm

Mom of 4 year old-
Maintain your relationship with your child’s private doctor.
Keep a journal.

Shop aroundto look for a private attorney who has handled these sorts of cases before and go for a free consult or two. If ytou can afford it, consider signing a retainer with said attorney. In this way, should CPS raise their ugly head again, you can immediately call your private attorney. That in of itself may cause them to back off for good.

If you can

Comment by MaggieC — October 2, 2008 @ 6:21 pm

Cheryl-
Your advice is the pits. You can video but if the worker is not aware, it wont be used in court. If you do want to video the interview, a CPS attorney will be there too. Stop making “suggestions” and give useful advice.

And people need to offer better advice than “get an attorney”. Most people cant afford attorneys…Any more suggestions?

Comment by Advocate — October 2, 2008 @ 6:21 pm

Wow, Erica. Don’t believe in the Constitution, do you? It’s called INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY, and it is an important precept of our country’s judicial system. Are you aware that only 3% of parents whose children are removed by CPS will ever be found criminally guilty of abuse or neglect, yet less than 50% of those children will be returned home?

Due process, the right to confront your accuser, the right to an attorney, and trial by a jury were outlines for a reason. Because a government that is given too much power can and does abuse that power. Nobody here is condoning abuse or neglect, nobody here is speaking out against a legitimate investigation. We are simply asking the government to follow the laws it creates.

Advocate,

Yes, you CAN have your child removed for “pissing off” a nurse if you live in the wrong area and you don’t know your rights. It has happened. While we can’t take everyone’s story 100% on face value, they deserve to have their stories investigated thoroughly.

In my personal experience, I have found CPS to be quite reasonable, as long as you assert your rights from the very first communication. But the point is, many parents aren’t aware of their rights, and CPS has no interests of allowing them to be aware of their rights. Miranda rights are read in criminal cases, they should similarly be expressed in CPS cases. Yes, this means more work for the investigator, but it also means that the parent’s rights are upheld.

You will find people on this site who believe CPS should be completely eliminated. I’m not one of those. I am an advocate for EXTREME reform, and for advocacy for the parents. Most legitimate abuse and neglect cases fall into two categories: abuse or neglect by intent or by incident (negligence). I believe that abuse/neglect by intent should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, but abuse/neglect by incident should be dealt with by working closely with the family to remedy the problem.

The problem is, many of these families are rightly suspicious of CPS and will not work with the caseworkers. This is where a strong advocacy system could come into play.

Most of these responses come out of fear and worry. While yes, it is true, some truly abusive parents will post here, it is not true that every parent who posts here is guilty of abuse or neglect. And it is irresponsible to assume that they are.

Comment by Gideon Macleish — October 2, 2008 @ 6:34 pm

Advocate,

Actually, the guestbook posters and the MB posters are a different sort. I would encourage you to register and post on the message board; I think you have a lot to offer. While you and I differ on many key points, I see you willing to discuss the issues, and that’s a good thing. I’m sorry to see the gut reaction from some of the posters on thise thread, but please understand, many of these people have been through a lot. Helping them understand the system could go a long way towards easing that pain.

I think you’re a credit to CPS, personally, and I appreciate the fact that you’re willing to look at the other side.

Comment by Gideon Macleish — October 2, 2008 @ 6:37 pm

By the way, as to videotaping, laws vary from state to state, and advocate is right: it may not be admissible.

My position is that it is best to inform the CPS investigator that you are recording. I personally was surprised to discover that not only will they allow you, but they will welcome it. And if you inform them ahead of time, stating the time and date at the beginning and end of recording, it often CAN be used in court. SO you have an added bonus.

If the investigator will not allow you to record, you can often call their supervisors.

Another thing, RE: interviews of children. While you may not be able to afford an attorney, you may be able to get the caseworker to allow you to observe the interview from behind a two way mirror with a recording device present. Despite what most people think, these people ARE human. They see a lot of abuse and neglect and, in my experience, at least, are more than happy to deal with parents who will deal with them in a rational and responsible manner.

Advocate,

Speaking as a CPS investigator, would you personally refuse any of my requests (the right to record our conversations and observe the interviews of the children from behind a two way mirror)?

Comment by Gideon Macleish — October 2, 2008 @ 6:43 pm

Advocate-arte you are an attorney? I think not.
A person is free to video tape anything in their home and in most if not all courts, this is admissable.
Stop practicing law without a license.

Comment by MaggieC — October 2, 2008 @ 7:51 pm

Gideon-
Stop commenting to me if you are going to answer the questions yourself (wrong I might add). If you want to have a discussion about how I practice social work thats fine but why are you wasting energy if you know me so well and are with me everyday, every minute? Save the theatrics.
You were not even wronged by CPS so how can you come to assumptions about the agency? “Assumptions”? Where did I just read something about assumptions? I think that you may have mentioned it but that cant be because that would make you a hypocrite. Just because you know your rights the big bad CPS didnt bother you long? You think that people are only wronged when they dont know their parental rights? You think that people with the true horror stories are not intelligent enough to know that they are the parent and with that comes natural entitlements to raise their children in a safe, nurturing environment without government intervention? I guess everyone cant be as smart as you. Give me a break! If that worker was truly corrupt, you stating your rights would not have intimidated them- if anything it may have made them work harder to stay in your life. Wrong is wrong, evil is evil. Miranda rights? Ok, you are running out of things to say, shhhhhhhh.

Comment by Advocate — October 2, 2008 @ 9:47 pm

Gideon-
Most of the time I interview children with their parents, it depends on the severity of the case or if the report states that the child is afraid that the parent may retaliate, etc. If I did have to interview parents and children seperate, the child would probably be interviewed befor the parent even knows that CPS is involved (in school, daycare, etc)- keep in mind, this is only for those “serious” cases. As for parents- if I know ahead of time that you wanted to tape record thats fine but I wont be alone as tape recordings can be edited to reflect whatever the owner wants it to- just like you would want to cover yourself, so would I.

Comment by Advocate — October 2, 2008 @ 9:54 pm

Maggie-
Uhhhhh, no its not. Are you an attorney? Hold on, why am I even asking? Of course youre not but you had to add your oh so deep insight to the conversation….thanks for that- we were all waiting in suspense for your knowledge about law. Now I can take a breath.

Comment by Advocate — October 2, 2008 @ 10:02 pm

Gideon-
So many ignorant statements, so little time. In response to:
“Yes, you CAN have your child removed for â€œpissing offâ€ a nurse if you live in the wrong area and you donâ€™t know your rights.”
Did you hear this from someone who heard it from their cousin who might have heard something like that? A nurse? You would have done better by saying doctor as they make the diagnoses. Either that nurse is one heck of a magician or cousin got the story wrong.

Comment by Advocate — October 2, 2008 @ 10:07 pm

WOW! Theatrics? I’m trying to have serious dialog here, Advocate. I am not kidding when I say that I respect you. I think you’re offering good information. Please tell me what I wrote that offended you so much (make sure it was my post; you may be mixing up posts).

You’re actually not correct when you say I wasn’t wronged by CPS, Advocate. I was raised in the system and lost two brothers to it. I don’t see how you could be any more “wronged”. So don’t assume anything about me and I won’t assume anything about you, ok?

Now, to your point about recording: That’s what I wanted to know, and that’s COMPLETELY fair. If I’m recording, I expect the CPS worker to cover their rear ends, just as I’m going to cover mine. Nothing wrong with that.

What I’m trying to do here, Advocate, is meet in the middle. We come from different perspectives, and I’m trying to find a middle ground that would be reasonable. The essence of compromise is that neither side walks away with exactly what it wants. You’ve seen the alternative, and I’d hope you would consider rational discussion to be a preferable alternative.

And actually, your point about what would happen if CPS was truly corrupt is exactly my point. They usually CAN be reasoned with, and there is a chain of command that can be followed. I have actually found CPS workers to be useful allies in a number of situations because most workers truly want to help children, even if they don’t agree on the best way to do it.

You jumping to conclusions and assuming that I am a belligerent, angry person is as ridiculous as my assuming that you show up at every door with an eye on taking the kids. We ultimately both want the same thing, Advocate.

I’ve worked with many families from the other side, and I can honestly say that the majority of the problems in the cases I have personally observed could be resolved with a good, well trained intermediary. Because (and I will draw heat for saying this, but it’s true), I have not personally observed a single case of extended removal where there were not some home problems that needed to be remedied. That’s not to say that there aren’t bullies in the system, just that what I’ve personally witnessed hasn’t supported it. While I don’t agree that removals were always justified, I do agree that there were things around the home that needed fixing.

For instance, one family I dealt with had their children removed because they had no utilities in the home and nobody was working. They also refused to apply for government benefits. I tried to help the family, the father was working again for quite some time, but then found an excuse to quit job after job. I discussed ways to get their children back, but they never even put out serious effort. I won’t even begin to speculate why, but the truth is, they didn’t want their kids back bad enough to work for it. Not much you or I or anyone can do about that.

But I’d like to find a fair and reasonable way to help the families I CAN.

Make sense?

Comment by Gideon Macleish — October 2, 2008 @ 10:14 pm

Advocate,

No, I personally dealt with the family. They got their child back, of course, but the child WAS removed. I know you think anyone who speaks out against CPS is just a dumb hick, but some of us actually have an education and research our facts.

Sorry for trying to have a dialog with you. I suppose you’d prefer if I just called you names?

Comment by Gideon Macleish — October 2, 2008 @ 10:17 pm

Gideon-
Thanks for the change in attitude, now we can have an actual discussion. Do I have to be rude to get respect? Do you think of yourself as an uneducated hick because I never suggested that. Anyways…what were the allegations that brought CPS to the hospital? I ask this question because the chances of a worker taking a child just because a report was made are slim to none.

Comment by Advocate — October 2, 2008 @ 10:29 pm

First off, I think you misread my earlier posts. I have nothing at all against you personaly, and I actually appreciated your posts to Kandice. I think they did more good than most of the other posts out there.

The allegations against this family were failure to thrive, which you know can be rather broad. I do not know this family’s past history with CPS, all I know is that they did act very quickly, and on the report of a nurse.

Is this typical? 1. Not that I’ve seen, and 2. I certainly hope not. Were there deeper reasons that had to do with past history or with test results that were confidential? Possibly, I have no way of knowing. But I do think it’s fair and reasonable to ask questions, and to investigate.

I honestly want to work to help families meet in the middle, Advocate. We actually found CPS commenting on the manner in which we handled our investigation. I believe it is because we answered them promptly and thoroughly (within 24 hours of every contact), and because we worked with them to establish agreeable terms which respected our rights but gave them the information they needed. Do I think that makes us smarter than anyone? Nope, and that’s really my point: there IS a way to address these things that doesn’t require extraordinary intelligence or skill. All it requires is a cool head. And best of all, if by come chance you are in a system that IS corrupt, it gives you a solid foundation for appeal, should you need it.

But it’s hard to keep a cool head when you feel that your family is being attacked. Which is why I think an advocate for the family could do a world of good.

I admit, when I started out on this site, I saw everything in black and white: parents good, CPS bad. But over time, I have come to see the shades of gray that color so many of these cases. I understand why a worker, for instance, would not want to see a child in some of the environments they visit. And why a worker that sees this every day might err on the wrong side occasionally.

My goal is to try to help the families that want help to find it. And I think, truthfully, that helps CPS as much as it does these families.

Comment by Gideon MacLeish — October 2, 2008 @ 10:46 pm

Again, my advice for anyone undergoing a cps investigation where there was NO abuse is best: RUN, especially if you are in the state of Colorado!

Comment by Susan — October 3, 2008 @ 5:53 am

Erica, I’m so glad you’ve offered your wonderful insight for what’s in ‘the best interest of the children’. Yep, foster kids are MORE likely to be abused & killed in foster care than by their own parents. Of course the govt. doesn’t post these facts. Look at that child collecter in MD who stuffed her 2 foster kids bodies in a freezer. EVERYTHING our govt. touches turns to sh*t these days!

Comment by Susan — October 3, 2008 @ 5:56 am

I got this off AFRA. Please SIGN! Protect Kids & Parents Support a Constitutional Amendment that protects the vital child-parent relationship from unreasonable government intrusion. Go to
Parentalrights.org
Sign the Petition today!

Comment by Susan — October 3, 2008 @ 6:00 am

Erica,
First of all I don’t do drugs nor am I an abusive mother. I am not going to relive my story, but for those already on here they know exactly why my children were taken. Second of all how do you know that my children or anybody else’s children are better of with complete strangers? Are you so perfect that you think that you have the right to criticize and judge others? As I have stated numberous times I am not saying that I am the victim, my children are the victims. My children are victims of an over zealous judge and a caseworker who by far, did not do her job. I am so tired of coming on this site and seeing people just be horrible to one another. Fighting amongst ourselves is not bringing our children home. Where is the UNITY? I for one definitely know what each parent is going through, I am living it. I look at my appeals case almost everyday wondering if I am missing something, or if I read it wrong. I feel like I didn’t just lose my children once, now I have lost them twice. This time I don’t get another chance to make things right. We need to understand that parents who come on this sight have just been through hell, and are looking for some compassion and understanding. I don’t need anyone else thinking that I am a monster. I am human and I feel pain. I have to live with what I did to my children for the rest of my life. I made a promise to them when this first began that I would fight until my last breath. In my house a promise is a promise and frankly I have never went back on a promise made to them. This time however, I am afraid I will have to. I am out of options. Do you know how that makes me feel? Not only do I have to live with this broken promise, I have a 9 year old who thinks that his brother and sister will be home soon. His exact words to me were ” I know that when they find out that those caseworkers lied about you mommy, my brother and sister will be back home with us soon, and you won’t have to cry anymore.” Now I have to break his little heart and tell him they won’t be home for quite awhile. He has been a victim thorugh all of this, but has tried to remain strong for me!! I know that he is sad, and wants more then anything to tell his siblings that he loves them and wants things to be back to “normal”. How do you think I feel as a mother, to have to hurt him in such a cruel way? Have I suffered an injustice? No my children have, they will never know the heartache and the pain I feel knowing that someone else is watching their sporting events, teaching them how to drive, worrying about them as they go on their first date, missing prom and graduation. If you are not on this site for support, or guidance when why are you here exactly? To gloat on how perfect you are and how you still have your children? I totally believe in Karma, and while you are busy attacking others, watch out because Karma is preparing to give you what you deserve. You think you are untouchable, I have news for you, unless you are God they can come for your children too. You need to go to a sight dedicated to your cause,Tearing Families Apart, and leave us alone so that we may accomplish what we intended to do Bring home our children!!!!

Comment by Kandice Cantrell — October 3, 2008 @ 6:19 am

Advocate,

If CPS is doing nothing wrong then why do you need an attorney present when the person is video taping.

No one said to hide the video camera… We didnt’..

Of course nothing much was said until the case worker got back to her office then called yelling and making false allegations by phone.. We have those on recording as well.

Also, Mom of 4year old, if drugs were mentioned you might want to go and get a hair folicle test done now..

CPS will falsify a drug and hair folicle test results.. I know of several people they have done that to.

They tried with us, but then found out that we had already had one done and went back 4 months instead of 3. We also used their own lab…

Comment by Diando — October 3, 2008 @ 7:03 am

Needless to say they were NOT happy! LOL! Also stated it wasn’t allowed to be used in court..

MMMM, why can they use theirs and we can’t use ours… Done by same lab….

Comment by Diando — October 3, 2008 @ 7:05 am

Kandice,

Erica and Advocate are CPS workers…

Don’t take anything they say to heart.. It is all lies and poor advise.. you should know that you have been through the system..

They lie!

Comment by Diando — October 3, 2008 @ 7:07 am

Advocate,
I was not trying to offend you, I was asking where to go to help. Government officials are not interested in hearing a child abuser, claiming to be a victim. I know caseworkers have a tough job, but sometimes they jump to conclusions and before you know it they are into deep and the only way out is to keep digging. My caseowrker is a perfect example of this. She did not do her job, but instead of admitting she made a mistake, she put the full blame on me. As parents we must stand in a court of law and admit our guilt as a way of “righting our wrongs” and hopefully get our children back. However a caseworker does not have to do that. My caseworker lied under oath, can I prove it? As a judge who are you going to believe: A child abuser and her cohoerts, or a caseworker that you have worked with on many cases and know professionally? I had a physchological evalution a year and a half before this tragedy. According to this therapist I was fine, but the child would end up being a handful.He couldn’t understand why I never went to college, and claimed I was very intelligent. Now Cassopolis CPS therapist said that child was perfect accept for all the trauma he had been put through, and that I was unintelligent and was suprised I could even function. The first therapist does cases for DHS in Indiana as well as for Social Security. CPS in Michigan knew I had seen the therapist in Indiana, and they were the only ones allowed to get the report from DHS in Indiana. They admitted that I had been to see him regarding the child in question, but never gave the results of his findings. My caseworker would never in a million years say yes to video taping, or audio taping. I had someone who always listened to phone calls between her and I, but it was all hearsay evidence in court. According to Cass County, Michigan I am an alocholic, uneducated, child abuser that can barely function. Of course I have a GPA of 3.77 in Criminal Justice. This is while going to court, therapy and dealing with the loss of my children and working an 8 hour nightshift factory job. I understand that you are on this site to give advice, understand what parents have or are going through with CPS, but we cannot judge if these people are telling the truth or not. We do not know their stories and what kind of situation they are in. Like I have told you before, I have no reason to lie, I don’t know anyone on this site and I have never asked for anyone to pity me. I don’t pity myself. The minute I do that there is no hope of finding an answer. I know that you are not CPS, and that you cannot charge in there and demand for things to change. I have never said that CPS is a bad thing, I have said that the way certain CPS agencies function are wrong!!! My caseworker did not get the audio tape from a concerned person, but rather from a man who beat me. A month after my children were taken I returned to his home to get the rest of my belongings he beat me and tried to kill me for over an hour. She told him when she recieved the tape from him that she didn’t believe that he was abusing me and that he shouldn’t go to jail just because I said he did it. There were pictures!! Do you know what he got for this? A felony charge of striking an officer and he did 8 months. He was never charged with a trying to kill me, although the police officer testified and there was plenty of horrible pictures showing what he had done to me. Am I mad at the system? Damn right I am. That is why I have chosen this field. Things will not change unless we start to do something about it. I cannot just sit by and watch this happen to someone else. My children are expecting me to fight for what is right, and this is the only way I know how. I can type on here all day long and complain about all the injustices done to my family, but what good it do me? It doesn’t change a thing, my children are still gone and I am left with a big hole in my heart. You h ave to understand on this site, you are CPS you work for them, you take away children for them. It is not a personal attack on you, but on the system as a whole. People are going to be weary of you. Do you know how many caseworkers visit this site to use peoples pain as evidence? Do you know how many caseworkers visit this site and pretend to be victims, or want to “help” us. Erica and Sookie are perfect examples of people coming on here and flat out criticizing people who are hurt, frustrated and at a loss. We have lost so much already, we don’t need a constant reminder of that. Non of us are claiming to be perfect parents, we just want to know what went wrong, and how we can fix it. My children always thought I was SUPERMOM and could fix anything, well this is one problem I can’t. So where do we go from here?

Comment by Kandice Cantrell — October 3, 2008 @ 7:07 am

You know I almost feel sorry for them because I know they are going to hell….

But, we need the room in heaven for everyone to reunite with their God Given Children!

Comment by Diando — October 3, 2008 @ 7:08 am

Kandice,

You stated Erica and Sookie are perfect examples of people coming on here and flat out criticizing people who are hurt, frustrated and at a loss. We have lost so much already, we donâ€™t need a constant reminder of that.

That’s what CPS’s job is.. They love to do it as well… They are very sick people…

Please don’t even read their comments….

Comment by Diando — October 3, 2008 @ 7:10 am

I am in chesapeake virginia and need a lawyer to help me. I was falsely accussed by cps and its been 6 years and i still have not had any success in getting them back. I want to see about appealing this false neglect to a higher court. If there are any lawyers out there who can help me please help me.

Comment by alvera — October 3, 2008 @ 7:24 am

Comment by alvera — October 3, 2008 @ 7:25 am

Advocate and Erica….just admit it…..you are only on this site to cause trouble.

From your belittling remarks and blind support of CPS (along with your turning blind eyes and ears to the folks on this site), you show your TRUE CPS colors…….ignorant to what really happens to these families, indifferent to their pain, and argumentative and stupidly ASSUMING that everyone on this site must be guilty…….the SAME OLD CPS CRAP.

Oh, and Advocate - I am steamed about this NOT because I’ve had the displeasure of having CPS involve themselves in my life…..it’s after witnessing, and videotaping the lies and ignorance shown by CPS caseworkers and supervisors who REFUSED medical care to a friends grandchild, and by obtaining the REAL documents to show as proof in court that CPS was submitting FRAUDULENT reports. Got an answer for that one???

Seems the foster parents were so neglectful, and the caseworker and supervisor so stupid, they let a 2 month old get so severely ill in only 7 weeks of foster care (severe thrush, severe yeast infection, misshapen head, severe ear infection, a rash on her private parts that was oozing pus and blood, severe sunburn) that the judge returned to baby to the parents, and ruled that CPS was in MEDICAL NEGLECT of a baby! And on top of that, CPS hid the child from her parents and never informed the parents their child was so desperately ill due to CPS negligence.

Care to explain how that happened if CPS is sooooo wonderful about the welfare of a child??? Hmmmm???????? We even got an investigative report on tv about it. The supervisor and caseworker ON TAPE ignoring the medical plight of an infant. Seems to me they should be subjected to the same rules they apply to others.

By the way - you say CPS truly investigates families to make sure they are making the correct decision when trying to terminate parental rights. Explain this one….when my friends granddaughter was taken on a Sunday, why did CPS send a registered letter on Monday (the next day) with Termination of Parental Rights papers? Uh…..were they able to do a complete investigation in less than 24 hours….without telling anyone? I’d love to hear the explanation on that one.

I’m waiting with anticipation to hear your justification of that atrocity…..or don’t you have one…..ok…wait for it….wait for it…..

Comment by willfightforjustice — October 3, 2008 @ 8:21 am

Yes advocate- one more piece of advise and it IS NOT THE PITS as you say.

I have training in LAW! And yes, if the proper motions are brought forward in the order of protocal, THE VIDEO TAPE CAN BE USED!

And to beat you to the next condesending punchline you’ll type, just to make people believe you are better than me, my typing is bad, not because I lie about having training, but because you have me SOOOOOOOOOOOO ANGRY right now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You don’t know it all as you suggest.

Comment by Cheryl — October 3, 2008 @ 8:38 am

Has anyone else noticed that Advocate’s writings are getting more and more insulting, argumentative and holier than thou?

Just like a CPS worker/lover…….and they wonder why we don’t trust them…..

I’m mad as a hornet at them too Cheryl, but right now I’m laughing myself silly just thinking of how they try to come off as soooooo high and mighty, but in reality are nothing more than sorry little humans who feel the need to feel superior over anyone. As everyone knows, bullies will always pick on the beaten down because they can’t handle an honest fight.

Comment by willfightforjustice — October 3, 2008 @ 8:45 am

Advocate,

That is so untrue… CPS jumps at any and every chance to take a child. Especially, if they can get a baby.

If they are able to get a baby their excuse for not giving the baby back (even when no neglect was ever found) is that there is no bond between baby and mohter.

The hospitals get paid to turn people in as well. They falsify test results too. They claim that people test positive for drugs even when the person didn’t take a urine sample.

It has been proven… I have seen it. I also saw the report that CPS used against my granddaughter, CPS lied and stated that she had marijuana, and other drugs in her system..

No, no marijuana was present, as far as the other drugs, they were given to her at the time she had the baby and there after for pain…

CPS didn’t know I had connections and would be able to obtain the report…

Caseworkers are nothing more than sewer line scum that are obviously so miserable in their own lives that they take pride in ruining others.

And yes, they only pick on the poor and uneducated so they know that they can win..

Or is it that you are upset about the measly 25,000 dollars a year you make? Is that what make you superiour to the lower income people?

Comment by Diando — October 3, 2008 @ 9:02 am

We live in AMERICA and are suppsed to be innocent until proven guilty..

However, ever since Clinton signed the Safe Families Act we are no longer safe..

What’s going to happen when the economy completely crashes? What are ya’ll going to do with those children then?

Ship them off on trains like CPS did before? Remember the Orphan Train?

History repeats itself.

Also, if you think that you are helping in anyway your not.. You are actually robbing you and your childrens social security!

Comment by Diando — October 3, 2008 @ 9:05 am

I have noticed just that. The more this discussion goes on, the more Advocate attempts to have total control over it’s direction.

And when it isn’t going his/her way, Advocate becomes even more aggressive in the writings.

Like that of an authoritve figure. He/she is acting as a “moderator” would. I have seen it in those monthly meetings by an assigned moderator we had.

She became very aggitated and more aggressive as the meeting went on. It just didn’t matter that the family was getting somewhere by hashing out issues; not to her.

It seemed the more the family accomplished, the more she would attempt to take things off course.

Family reunification? I think not.

Comment by Cheryl — October 3, 2008 @ 9:05 am

Hi my name is Ashley. My daughter was taken June 5th 2007. I have been fighting to get het back. I found out today she has a spiral fracture in her arm caused by the foster father. They are trying to termanate my rights to her and my infant son even though I have done everything they asked of me. If anyone can help me I would appriciate it. I have posted a petition on Care2.com It is called “my Kids need to come Home”

Comment by Ashley Cathers — October 3, 2008 @ 9:06 am

This is how high up the ladder the corruption is in CPS!

This is an article written in our newpaper about our Judge and our court appointed attorneys…

Too many cases’

These CPS cases are not subject to state indigent defense laws, meaning judges can pick whichever lawyers they want. About 22 attorneys get the bulk of assignments.
‘There are some attorneys there that are very good, and because they do a lot of work they have a lot of experience,’ said attorney Troy Sanchez, who works child abuse cases. ‘But then you have some that are maybe given too many cases, and they can’t put in the time that needs to be put into cases.’
Under the Texas Fair Defense Act, a law passed in 2001, courts should randomly choose attorneys from a pre-approved list of qualified lawyers. But the law also lets judges develop more flexible appointment plans, which the juvenile courts here have done.
Nearly half of all juvenile delinquency appointments have gone to about two dozen of the nearly 165 attorneys vying to represent these young offenders, payment records show. Two attorneys regularly appointed have disciplinary records with the Texas Bar.
Judges say they don’t check the disciplinary records of those they appoint and that they rely on the most experienced or available. But many of their top picks also are juggling additional cases in family or criminal courts.
One of the top earners, attorney Oliver Sprott Jr., has done court-appointed work in the adult criminal courts and helped handle a death penalty case while making nearly $200,000 a year in the juvenile courts since 2005, records show. Public defenders working full time on juvenile or child abuse cases in Dallas County earn between $70,000 and $113,000; Travis County pays between $50,000 and $100,000. Sprott declined to comment for this story.

When asked for a copy of the file from Oliver Sprott my son in laws attorney we were told he didn’t have a file on him… Now how can you represent someone without a file..

He did like us though and told us DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING AND YOU WILL BE OK!

Coruption, Corruption, Corruption… all for the mighty dollar…. Not one concern for the child or her heath!

Comment by Diando — October 3, 2008 @ 9:36 am

This is the rest of the article written

Friends, contributors
All three juvenile court judges have been accused, privately at least, of favoring longtime friends or campaign contributors when appointing lawyers to represent the poor.
But Shelton and Phillips bear the brunt of criticism. Both received more than 90 percent of their campaign contributions from those they appoint; Schneider took in about 74 percent from these lawyers, according to a Chronicle analysis of contributions since 2005.
Mark Sandoval, an attorney appointed almost entirely in Sheltons’ court, has also represented Shelton’s wife in a lawsuit related to a fatal car crash involving their daughter, who was convicted of intoxicated manslaughter late last year. Sandoval, who did not return calls for comment, continues to get appointments despite being twice suspended between 1997 and 2000 by the State Bar of Texas for professional misconduct.
And two of the courts’ top earners, Sprott and Glenn Devlin, who together earned $1 million from taxpayers since 2005, are longtime friends of Phillips and Shelton. Devlin was Phillips’ campaign treasurer and former law partner. And each year during baseball season another top earner, attorney Gary Polland, lets Phillips sit in his seats near home plate for a dozen or so games. The judge says he always repays Polland for the cost of the tickets and has taken pains â€” including limiting all donations to his campaign to $500 per person â€” to erase any appearance of impropriety.
For his part, Shelton says he gets no joy from his appointment powers and plans to study public defender offices in other cities. All three judges deny any correlation between contributions and appointments.
‘I would be happier if there was a public defender system,’ Shelton said.
The only formal complaint against the courts thus far took aim at Phillips. In 2004 and again in July 2006, attorney Marc Isenberg wrote to the state’s Task Force on Indigent Defense, which monitors compliance with the Fair Defense Act, noting that a handful of the same lawyers regularly represented poor clients in that judge’s court. The task force referred him to the Texas State Bar or State Commission on Judicial Conduct and sent courtesy carbon copies to the county and Phillips. Last year both Isenberg and his wife, attorney Miriam Riskind, were removed, in a secret vote by at least two of the three judges, from the list of attorneys allowed to take juvenile offender cases.
Phillips faults Isenberg, who got work in his court, for not coming to him with his concerns earlier but says he encouraged the defense attorney and his wife to reapply for the list, which they have done.

Client complaints
Leaving court recently, Falicia Stroud said she was impressed with the attorney appointed for her youngest son. But three years ago, her older boy, now 18, got sent to the Texas Youth Commission after his court-appointed lawyer advised him to plead guilty to a crime he said he didn’t commit, she said. Afterward, Stroud said, she tried several times to reach the attorney.

‘Once they sign the paper, the lawyer doesn’t want to talk to you,’ she said.
When she finally got through, Stroud said, the attorney told her he wasn’t paid enough to take the case to trial. Lawyers in Harris County are paid according to a fee schedule, usually between $300 and $800 per day for a trial or $50 to $100 an hour for out-of-court work.
Complaints such as Stroud’s are not uncommon.
Yolanda Washington took off work to take her 14-year-old son to court late last month. He got in trouble for stealing a car, she said, and they met Sprott, his appointed attorney, for the first time at his initial court date in May. Sprott rescheduled that hearing and did so again last month, Washington said, telling her he was busy with a trial.
For each reset, Sprott usually makes $75, and Washington misses a morning of work.
But many lawyers appointed in the juvenile courts say they take the jobs because they care. Even those who see cracks in the system doubt a public defenders office would be the fix.
‘The thing is most of us are parents that work up there,’ said Natalia Oakes, one of the top earners. ‘I am speaking for myself, but I think other people feel this way. We like helping children.’
sarah.viren@chron.com

Comment by Diando — October 3, 2008 @ 9:46 am

Ashley can you PM me… I can’t help you but may know someone who can…

Comment by Diando — October 3, 2008 @ 9:47 am

Cheryl,

In our so called Family Reunification meetings, whenever I questioned what was said, or told them it wasn’t true and wanted to show proof of their lies, the lady holding the meeting would tell me “We’re not here to discuss that right now”

What were we there to discuss then?

Also, they told me at the end they were going to adopt my granddaughter out, after only 4 weeks…

When we showed them the tape recorder, they disappeared like cockroaches when the lights are turned on…..

Was never invited back to another meeting. Why was that?

Comment by Diando — October 3, 2008 @ 9:53 am

I was also told that I could not obtain copies of the medical records of my granddaughter because I was not related….UH?

The real reason was because they didn’t have any.. My granddaughter had never seen a doctor and was very ill….

Comment by Diando — October 3, 2008 @ 9:55 am

JUVENILE COURTS
A select few get the cases, and the cash
The attorneys judges pick most are also campaign contributors

By SARAH VIREN
Copyright 2008 Houston Chronicle

Comment by Diando — October 3, 2008 @ 11:06 am

Diando-

it was exactly the same at our meetings. I attended every one for over a year despite being asked not to after the 1st one. When I pointed out a lie, “we are not here to point fingers” she’d say.

Funny, they were very busy pointing fingers at the parents, and that was okay.

The common thing was to open with “positive attributes” and only positive. But within a minute the moderator would say “okay, that’s enough”. Then right on to the negative attributes, which went on for the rest of the 1 hour meeting. No family member ever spoke out at this point, but the counselors, CW’s, CASA and Phys’ spoke for the rest of that hour. Our comments were reserved by the moderator to only asking retorical questions of these social workers, or answering their questions. If we didn’t answer, we were called uncooperative family members. Nothing happened when they ignored answering our questions. That was okay in the moderator’s eyes. Normal Oper. Procedure, was her favorite answer to everything.

I had been taking notes at every meeting, but soon charged up my battery to the camcorder/digital camera combo. Because I had noted that several times she had crossed the line to antagonize the parents, then characterized them as anger, uncooperative, bitter and mentally ill parents when we’d go to hearing.

Excuse me!! I would have been just as upset under any circumstance if those things were said and done. It wouldn’t have had to be a CPS case for me to be upset by these belittleing tactics.

They objected to the 1st time I showed up with the video camera, but as I declared the right to use it, and gave each person, including family members, the proper notice to film, rather than closing the meeting down, they proceeded. It was amazing how civil the meetings became and how much more was accomplished toward sending half the kids home quickly.

The camera put everyone in attendance on equal footing.

Comment by Cheryl — October 3, 2008 @ 11:51 am

Diando-

In my state (won’t say since we have guests), a Child Family meeting is OPEN to ANYONE that is assigned to the case OR a FAMILY MEMBER.

Unless that person becomes foul mouthed or dangerous to others, they CAN NEVER be refused attendance.

I did notice though, that when one foul word was said by a family member, they were asked to leave the room until calm. But when a parent said the same fould word (after a lie was told), that parent was not sent from the room.

Low and behold! That parent’s behavior was brought to the Judge at the next hearing and presented as “mentally ill with extreme aggression tendancies.

That parent felt pushed and reacted.
While it was the wrong word to use, it was understandable given the antagonization that had proceeded it.

My point- by getting that parent angry, they had usable material at the hearings.

Thank GOD - it failed. The Judge saw thru it all.

Comment by Cheryl — October 3, 2008 @ 11:59 am

As far as baby being taken from the hosp,yes they did.i have neveer been involved with cps,never had any kind of criminal backround,no drugs.oh single mom.24 hrs or so after my baby was born,it was about 3;00 am or so.ia am a smoker,i asked a nursse if i could go out and smoke a quick ciggarette,since baby was asleep.she said sure,just sign the baby in at the nursery,cause you can’t leave them alone in the room,i said ok.i proceeded out following the exit signs.found a door to the outside
i didn’t realize the door was propt open,i went out the door.in the dark corner were 2 nurses male and female,i dont know what they were doing,and honestly didn’t care.i was tired but wanted that cigg.one of them said oh sh###t she just locked the door!,i said sorrrrry kinda sarcastically i admit…anyway,iparden my grammer,i never was good at writing essays or had the gift if gab.

Comment by margie meeks — October 3, 2008 @ 12:05 pm

I did not attend anymore.. The parents did not even attend the 1st one.. They were not invited… Only myself and my husband.

When I asked about the baby’s health (the one question) I got answered sort of, the Moderator said she was fine… I then spoke up and asked about her so called heart murmur and mishapen head. I was told we were not there to discuss that..

Of course that made me angry and and said it louder and louder until I got an answer..

Finally the moderator asked the case workers if they had seen the baby recently and been out to the Foster parents home…

They were both stunned and did not answer immediately… One finally said he saw the baby today, which was an outright lie… The second question was never answered.. Not one time did any of them check out the home..

After the media got involved the Foster Parents dropped my granddaughter off at a 24 hr facility in the middle of the night… She still did not receive medical treatment.

This went on for over 10 days…..

The babies Peditrician called the case worker and her supervisor after seeing the pix’s of the baby and told her she would go anywhere in town or write a prescription anywhere in town for the baby.

The Peditrician was told DO NOT CALL ME AGAIN, IT IS MY DAUGHTERS BIRTHDAY!

That is how much CPS caseworkers care about a child….

Comment by Diando — October 3, 2008 @ 12:09 pm

After i finished my smoke i had to find another way back into the hosp,the main entrance,i took the elevater to the 3rd floor maternaty ward and guess who was there? those two nurses.i said i am here to get my baby and go back to our room.she said you can go but the baby stays here,i said excuse me she said it again.i said Why? she said my baby was breathing to fast,i said WHAT DID YOU DO?she just repeated the same thing.i then said i am staying here with my baby…i sat there in a chair for what seemed like hours and was soooo tired.not one nurse or dr. or anyone even looked in on my baby
i was the one watching her chest making sure she was breathing.she was in the same position i left her in.
i finally said to that nurse.we are going back to our room,you haven’t even looked in on her.she then said i would’nt do that if i were you.i said its my baby.so we went back to our room.i put my baby in bed with me and fell fast asleep.next thing i know i
hear keys or something,they flicked on the lights grabbed my arms,and someone said grab the baby grab the baby,5150.thats all i remember.
the next morning cps came to my room.i had no witnesses,didn’t know my rights,had never had to deal with the law or cps before.they even used my last name against me because i have a brother in the system at around the same time,being accused
of molesting his daughter,thats not me.just because he used my address at one time.i jumped thru every hoop they asked i took anger management classes,parenting classes cpr classes counseling,drug testing twice a week,worked a full time job,and visit my baby supervised once a week,i eventually had a nervous break down,oh and there is soooo much more.how the hell can they adopt my baby out?unless they had her sold already.those nurses would make remarks,oh she is perfect,blond blue eyed.noone will ever know what i went through all by myself.I WAS BULLYIED by sacto,ca

Comment by margie meeks — October 3, 2008 @ 12:32 pm

I’m soooo sorry Margie….. Did you get her back or have they already adopted her out?

I feel your pain even though this happened to my granddaughter. Although, we did not lose her… I got her due to CPS’s neglect and then she was finally able to go home to her parents..

You have friends here that you can talk to… I had nightmares…. My husband would wake me up.

I was saying the Lords Prayer and screaming for help from my grandmother, father and brother, all of which are deceast.

I will never forget the nightmares as long as I live….

Comment by Diando — October 3, 2008 @ 12:47 pm

As God is my witness we will take CPS down!

Comment by Diando — October 3, 2008 @ 12:48 pm

I believe that CPS does have the babies sold before they even take them.

I was told on accident by a case worker that she “NEEDED MY WHITE BABY”

Her food then came out of her nose and her mouth dropped to the floor as mine did…

That right there told me that they have them sold before they even get them.. Not to mention I’ve seen videos and articles of it..

Comment by Diando — October 3, 2008 @ 1:00 pm

no i never got her back,cps kept trying to find more reasons ,such as .
well i was 39 yrs old when this happend,i am now 48.they asked me
5months down the line if i had eveer used drugs,i was honest and said yes when i was younger,so then they then added drug classes,and said i also had a drug history,i have never had a problem or been convicted,that was when i was alot younger.they didnt know what to accuse me of,so they added more to my case plan all along knowing they had my baby promised to someone who wanted a perfect baby girl.my father and his wife tryed to adopt her,but they said my brother also used that address at one time and my dad got a dwi 25 yrs
before that .so that counted him out.
i really was bullied.and alone.

Comment by margie meeks — October 3, 2008 @ 1:17 pm

I’m sorry Margie. That’s why we fight CPS so vehemently, and that is why this site is so valuable!

We all need to bulldoze down the CPS veil of secrecy and shout it out loud to any who will hear. That is the only way anyone will ever know….and that’s what CPS THRIVES on - FEAR!

Keep the faith, do your best to keep track of your child……the fight has only just begun!

Comment by willfightforjustice — October 3, 2008 @ 1:24 pm

OMG i just read something that hit home,when they had my baby in temp placement i could visit once a week,these foster parents had two new borns,one my baby girl,the other
a baby boy.the female mom took care of the baby boy the male took care of my girl,thats what they told me in a joking way.i was able to feed my baby twice in that month,and i requested her diaper to be changed
because she was definatly needing it
everything was alway supervised mind you.i took off her diaper and
god da** red,oozing something,i had never seen anything like this i imediatly complained,they used that against me i was no longer allowed to feed or change her,another time,the male foster parent asked what nationality is my baby,i asked why? he said cause she has a big butt,can you believe that?there is so much more believe me….

Comment by margie meeks — October 3, 2008 @ 1:36 pm

I believe every bit of it… The people that they place our children/grandchildren with are usually sick people.

There have been many times that they had criminal records. Do you know their names?

Comment by Diando — October 3, 2008 @ 1:47 pm

diando and willfightforjustice,thankyou
i am not looking for pity,but my baby and i have been wronged.maybe the system is trying to clean up this mess now,but what about the past eight years.1999 they were out of control.
we can never get those years back.
i long to see my precious baby.

Comment by margie meeks — October 3, 2008 @ 2:06 pm

no but i know where they live or lived.
there is so much more,makes me sick
to my stomach.my baby head was flat and bald in the back,in a matter of weeks both new borns faces or heads started to swell,or something
but both babys started to look the same as far as the swelling.another visit i showed up and my babby was on the floor with a mobil above her head,at first i did’nt think much of it
until that fosteer woman asked me if my family had a history of blindness,or trouble with vision,i said no why? she said my baby would not respond ,she just staired off in space.
i then realized that the mobile had a mirror 2inches above the babys eyes
how long did she leave my baby on the floor looking at that mirror?
of course i got in trouble for that,and god forbid me if i shed a tear,cause i was mentall unfit.and could not have
visitations.the foster mother said she was going to take the baby to the dr for that reason,i asked if i could be at the appt.she said ok.i told that dr about the mirror the yeast infection or whatever it was ,and about the head swelling of both babys,that foster mother freaked out,my baby was then moved ,but noone told me why.sooooo much more.it has been eight years so i forget some details .but it’s comeing back to me.
YOU NEVER GET OVER BEING CHEATED .My maternal instincts
i had to bury.that is not easy,i can never have another baby at 48.my life is worthless now.

Comment by margie meeks — October 3, 2008 @ 2:24 pm

No, Margie, in a lot of ways, you’re at a new point in life.

Many of us still have to be civil because, having kids at home, we run the very real risk of having a string of investigations falsely launched against us because we dared oppose the system (I found this out firsthand). Because they can’t hold your children hostage, you are in a powerful position to speak out.

Comment by Gideon Macleish — October 3, 2008 @ 2:37 pm

Cheryl-
Your advice is the pits. I have training in cooking but wouldnt advise anyone to taste it, lol! How old are you? 12? Next…..

Comment by Advocate — October 3, 2008 @ 2:59 pm

Willfight…-
“Oh, and Advocate - I am steamed about this NOT because Iâ€™ve had the displeasure of having CPS involve themselves in my lifeâ€¦..itâ€™s after witnessing, and videotaping the lies and ignorance shown by CPS caseworkers and supervisors who REFUSED medical care to a friends grandchild, and by obtaining the REAL documents to show as proof in court that CPS was submitting FRAUDULENT reports. Got an answer for that one???”
NOPE- have no idea what you are talking about- it wasnt my case.

“Care to explain how that happened if CPS is sooooo wonderful about the welfare of a child??? Hmmmm????????”
Nope, wasnt in that one either.

“By the way - you say CPS truly investigates families to make sure they are making the correct decision when trying to terminate parental rights.”
Nope, didnt say that. The investigation is done by that time idiot.

“Has anyone else noticed that Advocateâ€™s writings are getting more and more insulting, argumentative and holier than thou?”
Yep, I did notice that…you idiot, lol! Wait for it, wait for it……..

Comment by Advocate — October 3, 2008 @ 3:09 pm

Advocate - of course you claim ignorance…that’s how CPS people like you work!

Thanks for being so stupid, I’m having a GREAT laugh at your expense! LOLOLOLOL

Comment by willfightforjustice — October 3, 2008 @ 3:14 pm

Guess what? I had yet another client thank me today for all that I have done for her!!!! Can you believe it? Does it make you upset that some workers do their job and do it well? Does it make you upset that someone has come to this site to call you out on BS? Does it excite you that “CPS” herself responds in an ignorant manner after she has been talked to like trash? Sorry I hurt your feelings, lol! It is what it is. I will tell more of my co workers about this site so that can join in to further upset the ones who know nothing of what they speak but check every second for something that they can “tell somebody off” about. Is this site even serious anymore? There are a few that are looking for help but the others are just plain comical. Keep talking this is entertaining….I will be waiting on the edge of my seat.

Comment by Advocate — October 3, 2008 @ 3:16 pm

Oh Willy-
You fight for nothing. At least I am witty with my responses. You are so predictable with yours, c’mon try again. Think hard……you can do it…..

Comment by Advocate — October 3, 2008 @ 3:18 pm

C’mon, dont stop now. Do you need some tissue? I noticed that you have been posting all day, do you have a real job? Besides carrying around a couple of papers in a folder looking for families that you can push deeper into hole…i meant, fight for? Get a life. Still on the edge of my seat……Make me laugh some more.

Comment by Advocate — October 3, 2008 @ 3:22 pm

This is too easy. You think while I take a break, k?

Comment by Advocate — October 3, 2008 @ 3:24 pm

Well folks, as you can see, Advocate is turning into the tried and true CPS liar and fraud.

Sorry toots, stupid is as stupid does, and you’ve proven yourself to be 24 carat, and I don’t waste my time on idiots, morons or psychopaths.

Too bad you can’t be original……

Comment by willfightforjustice — October 3, 2008 @ 3:26 pm

erica and advocate where are you at now? yes they do take new borns,and it doesn’t take much in some cases,i definatly don/t have the gift of gab,i odviously am not rich
and did not know my rights.sacramento ca
cps needs to be reformed

Comment by margie meeks — October 3, 2008 @ 3:31 pm

Thanks for the posts CPS. It just proves my point.

Ladies and Gents, advocate seems to porget about print screen ability.

The words choosen and the LOL attitude are the exact cockiness to which I have become accustom from a social worker.

I do love print screens. So does the media. They love to see 1st hand the belittling we put up with. At least the media I’m working with does.

LOLOLOLOLOLL , Advocate!!!!!!!!

Watch for your words in film footage someday. They’ll shed light on what we deal with.

Comment by Cheryl — October 3, 2008 @ 3:48 pm

Advocator-

Your sarcasm is that of a cocky college grad that knows it all because they learned it in a textbook.

Try some street smarts. It works.

I’d put you closer to 12 than I.

Comment by Cheryl — October 3, 2008 @ 4:15 pm

Advocate basically just threatened to encourage coworkers to use this site to harass people. I can’t be the only one who finds this disturbing. No matter, the IP’s can be tracked, and we can only hope they use work computers. I’m sure advocate’s bosses would LOVE that info.

I did not post anything harsh or combative in ANY of my posts, yet Advocate alleged that I did. Typical trick. Fortunately, there’s a good “paper trail” here to prove exactly who said what.

I agree not all of the advice here is good. But telling people to record conversations, that they have a right to refuse entry without a warrant and to seek legal counsel is not bad advice, it’s pretty good advice, actually. Odd that advocate would be so offended.

Comment by Gideon Macleish — October 3, 2008 @ 4:16 pm

Thanks Gideon-

It ALL, that I chose worked for me and several others that took that same advise. My kids are home!!!!

Granted each case is different and the advise seems the same, but people are smart enough to choose which peices of advise to use and which ones not to, based on their unique case and the people they have to pacify.

Sure all computer basics can be traced. Some easier then others.

But the paper trail is obvious if you read each in order of the 33 pages. Nothing ombative was said to deliberately antagonize advocate, yet we rec’d sarcasm and threats. I’d say the type of threat I would expect from my some who is in college now. He speaks in sarcasm within his text on a computer, too.

It’s amazing that people can be so brave and cocky on a computer and yet be so wonderful in person.

Computers allow people to be whatever they want unfortunately.

Comment by Cheryl — October 3, 2008 @ 4:31 pm

Advocate, if you would, briefly explain what your intent is, on this site. You fit the mold of a typical social worker, from what I read. Yet, you claim to be over-qualified for the job. That explains the superiority complex, my perception only. You may know the “strings” within DHS and your states’ statutes, somewhat. Even you err due to your own arrogance. My opinion. As far as recording goes, it does depend on the state. Some require that only one party need be aware of the recording, in order for it to be admissable.

Comment by daaronad — October 3, 2008 @ 5:21 pm

Daarondad,

But don’t you know? CPS workers have the right to bust into any house without a warrant, seize kids, and put them away with no responsibility to anyone?

It is absolutely true that CPS policies and procedures are a STATE matter; if that were not the case, hearings would be held in FEDERAL courts. If Advocate doesn’t know this much, Advocate is indeed poorly trained.

Advocate,

I’m disappointed. I genuinely thought you were one of the “good guys”. I’m sorry to hear you’re just another jackbooted thug who thinks acting under the color of the government gives you unlimited authority and a complete lack of accountability.

The mother probably thanked you because she was afraid you’d take her kids if she didn’t, not out of some feeling of gratitude.

One thing I will be glad to see with the recession: agencies like yours are likely to see a cut in funding. Here’s hoping you’re receiving an unemployment check by Christmas!

Comment by Gideon Macleish — October 3, 2008 @ 5:33 pm

Advocate, this site is not intended to be a personal attack on your credentials or involvement with DHS. You may not realize it, but you are treating many of these posters aggressively, ignorantly, biasedly and judgementally. I, and many others, are here because we DID make mistakes when dealing with DHS. We want to help others from making those similar mistakes. Is it, in your opinion, justifiable to punish the majority due to the the actions of the minority? Is it rational to take a child because a social worker states in the report that harm may come to the child in the future, even though nothing has been proven for the child to be in immediate risk? There are numerous loopholes within the law and DHS Policies and Procedures, in which, DHS is well aware of. They use these loopholes and manipulations well. The average parent is clueless of these tactics until it is, usually, too late. These atrocities do happen to parents. And, it effects, not only the family, but, the whole community. These atrocities committed by DHS happen much more often than you want to allow yourself to realize. People, who post on this site, have a good reason to speak rashly and without thinking their comments through. They have had there children taken from them or are in some dispute with a similar situation. Regardless of whether you feel that it may have been neccessary, or not, the pain is still present. Having a limb torn from my body would have been easier to cope with than having my children taken from me. But, they weren’t taken from me. I allowed it to happen due to my ignorance of the law and DHS “Protocol.” I gave them to DHS due to my ignorance. I took them back after I learned the law and the truth of how DHS operates. I wasted money on an attorney. I wasted time, trying to cooperate with DHS. What they did was, not only illegal but, immoral. My situation is far from unique.

Comment by daaronad — October 3, 2008 @ 6:00 pm

Advocate, you respond with negativity. You speak as if these type of accusations made against DHS workers could not happen, because you know how the system works. Regardless of the guidelines, training and statutes, children are removed illegally, OFTEN. It is proven in court to be a legal removal because most parents are clueless to the law. The court room is not a fair field when it comes to family court. Most of us, on this site, ARE here to help others in a positive way, through personal experiance. You have become the same type of person that you accuse others of being, on this site. A HIPPOCRATE!!!!!!!!!!!!! Exclamation Point. I ask again, “What is your intent on this site?” Peace and Blessings

Comment by daaronad — October 3, 2008 @ 6:23 pm

Daaronad-
If you are going to type a word in upper case and add ten exclamation points, you may want to make sure its spelled correctly, idiot. ~Peace and Blessings~

Comment by Advocate — October 3, 2008 @ 6:39 pm

I JUST THINK THE SYSTEM NEEDS TO BE REFORMED,I ‘m sure there are some workers that are honest,some are not.god bless the ones who are.and many children do need to be saved,but get it right ,do not assume every parent is guilty.you honest ones…you have to admit…the system was totatly out of control.i pray you get it right and save the the ones that truely need help,and screen these foster parents like you screen us.should be even more,cause they just want that check,

Comment by margie meeks — October 3, 2008 @ 6:39 pm

Cheryl-
All that legal training and you still cant spell “advice”? Wow! Impressive! Make sure you charge top dollar for those services, they will be lining up at the door. ~Peace and Blessings~

Comment by Advocate — October 3, 2008 @ 6:41 pm

Margie-
I dont screen foster parents. I am an investigator. The following is not directed to you, but:
I think that a major issue here is the thought that EVERYONE in CPS is a bad worker. People fail to realize that A-workers make CPS, CPS does not make the worker B-there are different disciplines/areas within CPS C-Not everyone who works for CPS practices like the corrupt workers mentioned in these stories (the real stories).

Comment by Advocate — October 3, 2008 @ 6:47 pm

Daaronad-
You can save the saga comments for someone you have not insulted (I’m playing an imaginary violin). Maybe you forgot all of the hateful, ignorant comments you directed towards me. Why would you only respond appropriately when I make negative remarks? Maybe you should assess yourself before “helping” real victims. Until then, stop posting just to post- at least stop directing your comments to me- you are only wasting your time as I never read the entire thing anyways. ~Peace and Blessings~

Comment by Advocate — October 3, 2008 @ 6:54 pm

I feel for anyone who comes to this site looking for real help. Try responding to those looking for direction instead of looking for “Comment by Advocate”. Wow, I’m popular!

Comment by Advocate — October 3, 2008 @ 6:56 pm

Advocate,

I’ve talked to many on the site, and I haven’t heard them say that all CPS workers are bad. Most criticize the system because of the flaws in the system.

Do you realize that your threat to flood this board with all of your coworkers only confirms people’s fears, advocate? You say you’re trying to help, but you’re quick to threaten people who dare ask questions.

You’re right about one thing. Nobody should blindly take advice from someone on this board. Nor should they blindly take advice from you. Neither you nor I are lawyers, advocate, and our advice should be taken for what it’s worth.

Why are you so worried about people learning about their rights? Inquiring minds want to know.

Comment by Gideon Macleish — October 3, 2008 @ 7:02 pm

Gideon-
Dont be disappointed, I dont know what you define as a “good guy” as I am not an actress, wrestler, etc but I am a good CPS worker, just ask the people I help everyday. No offense, but I dont care what some of the people on here think of me as they dont know me. I am not CPS, I work for them. If you or anyone else is under the impression that I am not to respond with human emotion to insults and remarks of hate you are sadly mistaken. It seems as though this so called power CPS workers are allegedly seeking is given by those of you who think that I am supposed to be some super human- thanks for thinking so highly of me but i decline.
And I ask that if you stop contradicting yourself to save face. Its not becoming of you.
Next……

Comment by Advocate — October 3, 2008 @ 7:04 pm

Gideon-
Shut up, please.

Comment by Advocate — October 3, 2008 @ 7:05 pm

Diando, you mentioned ignoring Advocates’ comments. I agree. I thought of that shortly after I understood why Advocate was here. Unfortunately, new victims come here everyday, and they are heated. I hope that Advocate will be the person that he/she claims to be, and stop causing more grief by trying to convince others that DHS is a good system. I know that it was originated with good intentions, but it has become immoral, and in my opinion, on the same scale as a terrorist. Actually, much worse. We pay the taxes that pay the wages that allow DHS and family courts to operate illegally. Advocate seems, to me, to be caught up in the system, and will reap in the benefits, whether monetary or self indulgance, until it gets too close to home or when we make a change. Either way, the change is evident and I have made a committment to myself, my children and all families to do what I can to ensure that the “GODLIKE” power of DHS is stopped.

Comment by daaronad — October 3, 2008 @ 7:06 pm

Giddy-
Why do you have to say “advocate” 50 times throughout your post? Thats aggravating. Your attempts to be sincere are blinded by your contradictions. Again, shut up, please.

Comment by Advocate — October 3, 2008 @ 7:07 pm

(Fill in blank with any username)-
I think daaronad needs to shut up too, lol!

Comment by Advocate — October 3, 2008 @ 7:09 pm

Advocate,

Yup, a jackbooted thug. Only one of those would feel that they and they alone have the right to speak in a conversation. You’ve proved yourself to be among the very worst.

No, I wasn’t contradicting myself. I was trying to be accommodating because I thought you genuinely wanted to help, not realizing you are just another liar.

And if you want me to shut up, you will need to take it up with the owners/admins of this site. Because the last time I checked, it was as much my right to post here as it is yours.

Comment by Gideon Macleish — October 3, 2008 @ 7:09 pm

Ok, I’m taking another break. I’ll be back later. Love you guys! Keep ‘em coming while I’m gone.

Comment by Advocate — October 3, 2008 @ 7:10 pm

Advocate,

well, see, “advocate” is the username you’ve chosen. I don’t fake sincerity, I am who I am. And I was raised with manners, to address people by name.

That doesn’t go away when I’m online.

But you’re right. It does seem odd to use the word “advocate” when addressing you. But “jack booted thug” takes a bit longer to type

Comment by Gideon Macleish — October 3, 2008 @ 7:12 pm

advocate ,whoever investigated my case,did not do there job correctly,in fact i think i dealt with several of you,weather you were investigaters or social workers i dont know .all i do know is that they had me sooo confused and shocked 24 hrs after haveing a baby,made me sign this and that and go here go there,do this and that…..wowww i dont care who you are ,under those circumstances,you possibly cant satisfy them.especially if you are a single mother,that does’nt know her rights.and just gave birth.

Comment by margie meeks — October 3, 2008 @ 7:18 pm

OK, I’m confused about something, advocate.

You keep referring to me insulting you. Please show me where I insulted you before you took it upon yourself to tear into me. I’ve looked back through the posts, and either you confused my posts with those of another poster or you are a bold faced liar, one of the two.

I know you’re not used to being held accountable for your words, but humor me this once. Go back through the posts, find a post that I made, and find where I insulted you BEFORE you started insulting me.

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